UPPER WEST SIDE — A 208-year-old building about to go through the city's landmarking process, a plot of land prime for development, and a congregation made up of every background and age.
These are just a few things on the shoulders of Kate Flexer, the new head rector at St. Michael's.
In December, Flexer took over as the first woman rector at the church, which sits across from Columbus Square on Amsterdam Avenue at West 99th Street.
St. Michael's is known for its diverse congregation, but Flexer said she won't stop at just having an array of backgrounds represented. She wants people to really know each other.
"It takes work to keep the diversity real," said Flexer, who also has her own family to look after.
DNAinfo sat down with Flexer to talk about issues facing the church, how she appeals to people who find traditional services "too churchy" and spirituality in the broader neighborhood.
Emily: So, Kate, you were actually the associate rector here for five years, from 2005 to 2010. Now you've returned as the head rector this past December. How did you initially end up on the Upper West Side? What was the story that got you here?
Kate: In the first place?
Emily: In the first place.
Kate: The rector at the church at that point, George Brandt, got my name from somebody and called me a little bit out of the blue and said, 'I'm a rector in New York City and I'm looking for somebody to come and do twenties and thirties ministry and deepen the spiritual development at the congregation.' I thought, New York City, I've never ever in my life thought about living in New York City, but, my fiance, then husband, was like, 'Yes! New York City. Let's go there! Absolutely.'
We came into worship on a Sunday and just sat inside that beautiful church and up on the wall above the altar area are painted the words, 'I am the bread of life. He who comes to me will never be hungry.'
Just seeing that, it just really struck me. There was the beautiful windows and the beautiful colors, but those words in particular just really spoke to me. When we formally came and interviewed, the people that we talked to were just so interesting, so welcoming and warm and lively. I just really felt drawn to come and try it out. So, we did.
Emily: What was the Upper West Side like during that time? What were your first impressions of the neighborhood?
Kate: Well, we moved in in July. My first impression was that it was really hot and really humid and really noisy. Every window in our apartment was opened and everything was grimy with the diesel dust and it was a little bit like, 'oh what have we gotten ourselves into?' We are both West Coast people, we both love the outdoors; this is pretty much as far away from that as you can get. But, it wasn't that long until I started to realize how great it is to live in a neighborhood. It's different than anywhere I've lived before where I genuinely feel like people know me — the dry cleaner and the stationers — and there's more of that real community feel.
Since most of the people that go to St. Michael's actually live in walking distance to the church, I literally pass my parishioners all the time. I go to the farmer's market on Friday and there they are. We're like 'oh, look at these beets.' I walk down the street and there's so-and- so who's just come back from their trip. We just check in. It really is that ... What I didn't know about New York is that it can feel like such a small town. Everybody says that about New York who lives there but from outside of New York, you don't know that.
That was the piece that really struck me when I started to make a home here.
Emily: You left in 2010, what was behind that decision? Was that hard after meeting all of these folks and forming this small community?
Kate: It was. We missed the West Coast and we had our two children while we were here, during that time. We had a desire to get them closer to their grandparents and to be closer to our families and we missed the mountains and being outdoors and all of that. I also really felt ready to be rector and that was the third rector I'd served on the staff for at that point and I was kind of like, 'okay I want to make my own mistakes now.' I want a turn to create a vision and all that kind of thing that the leader gets to do.
We looked at places, jobs and things that would take us back west. I left. At the time I remember feeling ... As the move was coming, I remember feeling like, thank goodness I am going to shed all of these things I don't like about living here. But, then as the actual goodbyes started, then my heart started to get ripped out. You know? I think those set of feelings stayed with us, even after we moved and settled and were living a new life. That is part of what in the end brought me back, I think.
Emily: Then when you returned, which was December, how had the neighborhood changed in your view?
Kate: I feel like my perception of it has shifted. Partly because when I was here before as an associate I was a little less involved with the neighborhood. Your job is focused on just the congregation and you're a little more inside, whereas being rector I'm much more out there and talking to people and meeting folks. I am more aware of what's going on around me. Certainly, there's the continuing closure of small places and it's disheartening to come back and see some of the huge store fronts still empty. You know? Across the street they made new buildings that had been built when I was here and those retail spaces have never ever been leased by anybody.
Emily: In Columbus Square?
Kate: Yeah and to continue to hear that the saga of small, independent stores and non-profit organizations having to move out because their leases are so high when there doesn't seem to be anybody able to move in. The whole thing just doesn't make any sense to me.
Emily: How much do you get involved in neighborhood issues and struggles?
Kate: Part of our situation right now is that we have of course this empty lot on 100th and Amsterdam, which has been sitting there empty for a long time. Way longer than any of us would like. That by it's very emptiness draws us into the neighborhood conversation around what's going to get built there, what should be built there, what would be good for the community.
Emily: How long has it been empty?
Kate: I would have to look at the actual date to tell you but, I know it's been longer than 10 years. There were some tenement apartment buildings there many years ago. That was a property owned by the church. We sold it to Jewish Theological Seminary, they tore those buildings down, but then didn't get the financing together or something. But, it didn't get the new building built that they intended. In the end, we purchased it back from them, had the developer, had things set up for it to get developed and then 2008 happened and the financing went away again. That developer was not able to build and we're sort of still where we were. It's been frustrating for lots of people in the congregation.
Emily: What do they want to do with it?
Kate: What we want to do is have a developer build something there. Simply to give us income because we need to maximize that in order to survive and take care of these other buildings that we have. I think a lot of people in the congregation really want to see something happen that would be good for the community. Obviously, affordable housing is a big buzzword and it would be great if something like that could be built there.
What we're doing is basically waiting to see what the market would send us by way of interest and then see what the possibilities might be.
Emily: It sounds like St. Michael's is in a similar situation as say St. John the Divine where you need funding to keep up ... This church is 200 years old.
Kate: Right.
Emily: So, you're hoping that this space becomes a revenue source.
Kate: Right. Exactly. There's always this tension between, obviously, the purpose of a church is not to maintain your building. The purpose of the church is to serve Jesus and God's people and the world. You need buildings in order to do that. In the history of our city, we are the keepers of these old buildings that haven't been torn down and still are beautiful and still something to people just by way of respite to the eye, that don't look like all the other buildings.
It's wanting to do both; to serve our mission — being Jesus people in the world and to be good community partners and caretakers. It's a hard tension. I think it's a continuum. Different communities fall in different places along that in how they make their decisions.
Emily: Is this a landmarked building?
Kate: It's calendared for landmarking. Yeah. There will be a hearing about it in November with the list of 95 properties that they're finally going to get around to talking about.
Emily: How will that change things for the church if it is a landmarked space?
Kate: We don't know yet. We need to have a conversation with the Landmarks Commission.
Emily: Is that something that the congregants want?
Kate: You know, there is probably a range of opinions about that here. I think everybody loves the beauty of the church in particular, especially the windows. My understanding is landmarking only affects the exterior of the building, especially of a church, it doesn't affect the interior of a building, but there may be some confusion about whether the windows are exterior or the interior. But, I think there's a great love for that part of our property and wanting to keep that in good shape.
When it comes to the parish house where we are sitting now or to the rectory where we live, they are lovely looking on the outside but, they have limited functionality in terms of what we're able to do. We're not accessible to people with mobility issues in this space. Our meeting spaces are constricted and that kind of thing. I think there is just a little fear that maybe we'll be too restricted and not able to do again, living out the mission part of what we feel like we're here for.
Emily: Yeah, that maybe income would allow you to expand that hall or those spaces to serve more people.
St. Michael's describes itself as a diverse place. A place that's open to people of all walks of life. How do you do that? What does that mean to be a diverse place?
Kate: It genuinely is which is a pretty rare thing frankly for a mainline church these days. Most mainline churches across the country want diversity and don't have it. St. Michael's ... It's one of the first thing people say they love about it, that when they come in they see a whole mix of people and there is somebody that looks like you and a whole bunch of people that don't. It's really been a gift.
I don't know how that came to pass really in the first place but, it has managed to maintain a pretty good cross section of the folks who live on the Upper West Side. True diversity takes work and intentional care. That's one of the things that I really am committed to doing in my time here, is to deepen the diversity. It's possible to look around and say, 'it's so great'. There are a lot of people who look different - check.' We've done it. But, not to really take the next step of saying, 'and I know you and you know me and we're actually in community together.' That's one of the things we've been working on.
When I first got here as rector I said, yes, I know some of you because I was here before but I don't know everybody and I suspect everybody doesn't know each other. I had a series of gatherings in peoples homes, 15 people or so getting together and I'd just ask them some simple questions and initiated a little story telling. What made you come to St. Michael's? What do you care about? What do you do when you're not at St. Michael's?
There were people that had been in that congregation together 20 years and were like 'really? I didn't know that about you because they hadn't really had the conversation.' Everybody who came to one of those said, we have to do more of these. This was all supposedly to intro you but, let's do this again in some other ways.
I want to keep doing that kind of thing. Also, because of the changing in the neighborhood you can see some of the changing in the diversity in the congregation. It takes work to keep the diversity real so that there's genuinely a mix of classes and genuinely a mix of people's backgrounds and that they are able to know each other and care for each other in a community.
There are things I am hoping to work on or I am trying to get started now really, to reach out in the community to make it more genuinely a place where everybody on the Upper West Side feels like yeah, I can come there and feel at home.
Emily: Does the fellowship and the service, how do those speak to diversity in the congregation?
Kate: By service, you mean the worship service?
Emily: Yeah, the worship service.
Kate: One thing that's really great right now is ... Well, it's been true for a long time, we have a really gifted musical director. He has tremendous range. His name is John Cantrell and he can do everything. He loves to do everything. He loves a huge mix of music. We try to make sure that musically, maybe not in every worship service but across several weeks of worship, you'll experience music of all different kinds. We had this beautiful, wonderful German organ that people who love that kind of thing, love. But, he also a couple of years ago bought a Hammond organ, which is more what you hear in southern black Pentecostal churches so he can do the more gospel type of music. That way it sounds better than trying to do it on this German organ.
We've got children's choirs that sing all kinds of different kids music. Then, we've got an evening service where it's more guitars and acapella and that kind of thing. Trying to have a range of music is I think a piece of it. That's a lot of where people connect in culturally.
Overall, the worship services are different. The main Sunday morning one is more your typical formal Anglican service. The evening service is all together different. Just very informal and ad-libbed and improved in a way.
Emily: I wanted to ask you more about that. That was described to me as a discussion. How did you start that? Why did you start that, informal service?
Kate: I started that along with a colleague when I was here before about nine years ago. I can't believe it's still going. It's amazing. It's continuing to serve the need out there. Initially we thought of it as a way to reach out to people that didn't do church. If the main worship service felt too churchy and traditional and arcane, like 'I don't get that.' We were trying to make something that followed that structure but felt very much more accessible and approachable. We were thinking at the time of young adults in particular.
It's interesting what happened. It has continued to be attractive to a huge range of people. Actually, one of our longest time members who's 94 comes regularly to that service and the morning service. I don't think he has any particular need for a different kind of liturgy but there is something about that experience that draws him. It is a place where 20 somethings also feel comfortable. Probably not folks who have never done church before because in the end I think, just to walk in a church takes more guts than un-church people are often ready for at that point. But, maybe people who have been away from church for a long time and feel the need to reconnect have found a home in that service.
It's interactive. Usually, the preacher says something in their sermon and then invites some talk back.
Emily: They give a little sermon first?
Kate: Right and then there's a chance for people to share their own feelings and thoughts. Then we get to the prayers. There is room for people to offer their own prayers. It's both quiet and contemplative and also very interactive at the same time.
Emily: I think you were going to tell me about the fellowship aspect of the church and how that is culturally diverse.
Kate: This is a congregation that really loves to get together, which is great. We've been doing these summer barbecues. We just had the last one of those last night. That's one way of getting together where folks from all over the neighborhood seem to hear about it and turn up. We have an outdoor hangout hamburger kind of thing.
Emily: What are the needs of the parishioners here? We talked about the fact that it's a very diverse congregation. What are people seeking at St. Michael's?
Kate: Some of them are here ... If you ask them why are you here, some of them are here they say simply because they have kids and they want them to have some kind of "values" or some kind of upbringing that's different than what they would get in school. That's all they're willing to say: 'I am here for the kids.'
Many of them likewise will say, 'I am here because of the music.' 'Because it's beautiful to listen to or because I get to participate and sing in it. I love to sing this kind of music. That's what I'm here for.' Some are here because they need a place to serve and be useful. We have a Saturday kitchen that has been running more than 30 years that on Saturday morning serves a hot meal to anybody who comes. Volunteer-wise it's a wonderful community because it's really, literally show up at 8:30 whoever you are and we'll put you to work. It's very simple for people to get involved and people have come into that and started helping and participating. In the midst of that and hanging out with all these other people, slowly find their way into Sunday morning also.
There are lots of people that genuinely know' I am here because I need to seek God and what's God's calling me to do and to be with other people that can talk that language too. I guess, overall that's one thing that's great about this congregation and I feel is even more true than when I was here before is that there are a lot of people who are ready to step up and do things themselves. Instead of just sitting around and saying, somebody really ought to do something and then they look at you, clergy person, you make this happen. I feel like there is a lot more appetite to say, this would be something that we need to do and I am going to start it. I am going to get so and so to work with me and we're going to make this. It's very exciting. I love that.
Emily: Do you think that's sort of the activist heritage side of Uupper West Siders, who are doers?
Kate: Maybe so. Yeah. Again, I feel like maybe there's a different stage of the maturity of the congregation that there's more ... I don't know how to say it exactly. There's more appetite to learn and dig in more. But, there is more readiness to really get involved and not hold things off at arms length. It may just be partly demographic. It might be a chunk of people that their kids got old enough finally that they can raise their heads up and look at other things. Whatever is causing it, it's great.
Emily: What are these pastoral visits? What do they typically involve?
Kate: People come and talk to me for all kinds of reasons. It could just be, I don't know what to do with my life. I can't figure out what to do next. It can be obviously a crisis. Something has just happened in our family and we really need to talk to you. People who are grieving. Then there are the happier things, meeting with people to prepare for a baptism of a baby or something. When it's visits that I do it's either to folks who are in the hospital or to some of our shut-ins who are just not able to come out. I'll take the communion or stop in and say a prayer quickly if it's in the hospital. It's a mix of things.
One thing that's great about parish ministry is you get dropped into this level of depth in people's lives. It's just an incredibly privleged position. You don't have to really earn your way in sometimes. All of a sudden there's a crisis and they need you. You need to be there with them and you are hearing things that are incredibly vulnerable but helping people to steer through those and reconnect to God, speak directly to the person that's wronged them, all of that kind of thing. I love doing it. It's not everything I love about parish ministry, but it's definitely a piece I love.
Emily: That's a lot to process. How do you take care of yourself? Is there anybody that you go to for your needs?
Kate: Well my husband, a lot. Currently, I need to find a spiritual director. I don't have somebody like that right now and that's a piece that I really need to have. Other times I've had a therapist that I've gone to talk to. I am a runner and I go pretty much everyday, that's an essential piece. I find often on my morning runs that I am going through things in my head.
Emily: Where do you like to run?
Kate: This is where I live, the Upper West side. I either get to go down the river or I get to go to Central Park. I think if I lived in Midtown I would just go crazy. Both places I can be in the midst of greenery. With the river it's by the water. Some place that's different than just being on the streets.
Emily: Do sermon ideas come to you when you're running?
Kate: Definitely.
Emily: What do you speak to people about? What are your sermons about?
Kate: The stuff that I tend to has to do with individual relationships with God. What I'm consciously trying to be more careful about also addressing are larger social issues. I know that's really important. It's important right now in our world to be talking about that stuff. But, it's also important to people in this congregation to hear that. In the church we have a structure, an order of readings every Sunday that are set. When I preach I usually am preaching off of one of those texts or more of those texts that have been given for that day and seeing kind of what can I distill out of that as something that people can take away and really apply in some ways of their lives.
Emily: Do you think that the Upper West Side is a spiritual place generally?
Kate: One difference between the West Coast and New York is that there is still a lot of family heritage and traditional ... Family traditions that connect people to organized religion, which in the west is basically not there anymore. It's a great entrée into people's lives that they will come back around to you when it's time for a baptism or when they want to get married or something like that and there's an opportunity to have a little more conversation with them about the deeper stuff.
And like anywhere else with a lot of smart people there is a lot of resistance to religion. Sometimes people I think have a boogeyman thing in their mind about what religion is because some experience they've had or things that they have read about it or assumptions that they've made. Just like anywhere you have to find ways to show people that it's not exactly that way, in fact.
Emily: Some congregations are losing people. In general, the mainline churches have been in decline. Has that happened here? How have the numbers been?
Kate: The numbers have been pretty constant actually and growing even. I think the mainline churches around the country that are still thriving are ones like this that are urban and diverse and with a lot of different things going on. There still are a lot of people that come every Sunday that are new and are checking things out.
Emily: Are you trying to reach people digitally? I know some churches have podcasts and they publish sermons online. Are you doing those kind of things to try to bridge that gap?
Kate: We are. We have an active Facebook page. We have a website, like all websites always needs revising and everything. Our sermons are all posted online and we're looking at other ways to get stories out there, maybe a blog. Something else like that. Just getting the voices of people here, out a little bit more.
Emily: We talked a little bit about the difference between East Coast and West Coast. What draws you to the East Coast, especially for raising your kids here? You said you wanted to go to the West Coast. What has it been like raising them here?
Kate: One thing that's really true I think is that people here tend to be more distilled. More essentially themselves. There is a saltiness and a smartness and a quickness and a sense of humor. So many people here have such a quick sense of humor. No matter who it is you're talking to. That zest we missed going back west. It's a beautiful place but, I don't know what it is, maybe everybody gets so mellow because it's so beautiful or what it is. You don't have quite as many people that read and quite as many people that are ready to talk about things on that level.
Our kids, my older was 4 when we moved from here and we found where we lived in California that she was actually ... She did fine. She is the kind of person that can engage in any community and do pretty well for herself but, she was running into difficulties with real friendships. I just had a hunch that when we moved back here she would be happier and she is. A few weeks after we got back here she was like, okay I am home. This is where I am supposed to be. She is 8 now and she fell right back in with friends that she had from before and just took off.
The resources that are available. The opportunity to just go on an afternoon and hang out at the Natural History Museum or the Metropolitan Museum. Just to go to like a Lego thing at the Highline. Just to be able to do random things that are just there to take part in all the time. That's just been great.
Our littler one, his foundational years were spent with a backyard and with his trucks in the dirt. He still kind of misses that. He's a little bit quieter of a little person. He still misses the West Coast a bit. It's so noisy and busy and not quiet and peaceful as he remembers. He loves to drum and he's already had his opportunity drumming with a drummer on the platform at Times Square station. The opportunities are great.
Emily: The experiences are very different.
Kate: Exactly.
Emily: That's great. And you're the first full time female rector here.
Kate: Yes.
Emily: Was that important to you? What does that mean to you?
Kate: It was ... It was not something I really thought of. The only time I really think of it is when I look at the pictures of all the guys from before and it's like oh yeah, my picture is going to look different than those. My very first full time job I was the first woman priest they ever had in that congregation. There were some that wouldn't even take communion from me still in that congregation. This congregation is nothing like that. They already knew me, I had already been here and served as priest. In terms of serving the people here, it's a non-issue. The people that tend to notice and comment are those who may be coming to visit who are surprised. Who think maybe we are a Catholic church and wonder if it's changed.
One thing that is different is before me, the previous two rectors who collectively were here for nearly 50 years were bachelor men and not 50 years, I guess it's less than that the two of them, 30 years maybe. Anyway, to have a family at the leadership of this place I think really looks different. Hopefully, it can be a humanizing thing. I can talk about what it's like to be a parent too and they can see me not being at my best with my kids. It's maybe a little more entry into that and maybe don't seem so removed from average everyday life or something. Who knows?
Emily: You're very approachable.
Kate: Well good.
Emily: It was lovely talking to you.
Kate: Thank you.
Emily: Thank you so much.
Kate: You as well.
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